Episode Transcript
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome, everyone, to tonight's episode of Pivotal Change. I'm your host, Ryan Kahn from CS Business Consulting, and we have a very fun episode tonight. Now, this is a show that's all about business, entrepreneurship, leadership, and anyone that has or wants more influence and how you can find the one or two things that are going to help you make your pivotal change towards your path to success. I've got a very good friend of mine, Will Hill, from Will Hill consults with us tonight. And the theme of tonight's episode is going to be largely focus on relationships and the importance of building them, keeping them, and so forth. So Will, an expert in building processes and teams and working with people, knows a lot about relationships. Welcome to the show, sir.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Well, thank you. I am happy to be here today.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Ryan, I'm happy to have you because you're probably going to spill out a lot of wisdom for us today. And you know me, I like to kind of jump right in there since we're always up against the time window. And I want people to get to know your brain and thinking about strategic relationships. So kind of what I want to start off with is defining it. What is a strategic relationship and what does it look like in business and leadership along that journey, and how does that just make a difference from casual connections that we have in everyday life?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Well, Ryan, to me, strategic relationships are really about the fact that there is mutual value in that relationship. Like, sometimes people say, oh, I want to have a relationship with Ryan because of what he can do for me, that's not going to end up being a strategic relationship. That's just going to be a casual one. You might get something out of it. Ryan needs to get something from me as well for that to truly be a strategic relationship. So there's got to be value, both directions there, and that can only come from intentionality and transparent conversation. Right. I think when we start to get to know someone and we see the potential for that to be more than a connection and to be a strategic relationship, I want to have that conversation and say, hey, Ryan, I think there's something here where we can both benefit. Let's talk a little bit more about where we can go together with this relationship.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that a lot. So mutually beneficial. There's value going both ways in the relationship. And again, that's what makes it strategic and not just a casual relationship or a transactional relationship. It's got purpose for both involved. I. I appreciate and definitely respect that, that definition. So moving along with these strategic relationships, it sounds like something that probably needs some type of system of identifying or some type of method to identify if this is a potential strategic relationship. What type of criteria do you look for? Could people out there be looking for to make it a strategic relationship?
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Well, let's first think about the word strategic. It needs to be connected to your strategic goals.
Right? So we could see anybody and go, oh, we can exchange value, we can have a strategic relationship. But if it's not going to be in support of what the goals of the organization or the goals of the leader are within the framework of the organization, we're just going to be distracted. Right. And we're going to feel like we're not making any traction and get frustrated. So first thing is, what's the alignment? Right. So if I think that, Ryan, you're going to be a good strategic relationship for me, I need to make sure it aligns with some of the strategic goals that we have. And the question is, is there goal alignment? The next question is, is now the right time? Is now the right time?
It could be too early.
Hey, Ryan, I think there's something there, but I got a lot going on right now. I want to come back at this six months so I can devote attention. Nothing spoils a potential strategic relationship quite like starting fast, promising value, and then being sidelined for six weeks. Right. You're not often going to get chance number two, especially if it's an external to your organization strategic relationship. The third element, there's got to be value correlation.
And the value correlation is in what we're doing and the way we're doing it. I started a strategic relationship, Ryan, with somebody soon after I started my business and we kind of jumped in in a hurry and it became apparent that our working styles were just different and we valued some different elements of how the work was to be done and we just had to end it. And the sooner you can end it, the better. He and I still have a great relationship and we still work on some other things together where those different values don't conflict with one another. It doesn't make him or I a bad person.
But we've got to make sure there's good value alignment. So those are the three things.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: I love it. So paraphrasing that back, I love the fact that you're using the word alignment specifically. That's something that I really try to draw people back into and I'm A lot of your most important decisions and daily decision. Does this align with the mission? Does it align with the vision? Does it align with the action? Plan and goals. And so that alignment is super important. So that strategic relationship, it's got align with the goals too. The timing, I think that's beautiful. This person is going to be a wonderful relationship for me, like you said, in six months. But it's not, it's not beneficial now. And then that, that redundancy of adding that value back into it, I think that's, I think that's really important. So most people, if they're listening to what I normally say on the show, should be listening with pen and paper. Those were some three things that you should be writing down. So let's talk about that intentionality for just a little bit. So in your experience, you have a pretty, pretty broad base of experience.
The intentional networking, how does that differ than just like meeting people and having a guy for this and a girl for that?
The strategy, what does it play in your process when you go to networking events or networking opportunities and then establishing the strategic relationship?
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Sure. So here's the good news about what I'm about to say. If you are an introvert and you hesitate to go to networking events, this will help you there also. Okay, so two birds, one stone. And that is first, do a little bit of pre work. Who is going to show up? Most of the time these networking events, there's a list of people that have been before or if it's going to be a chamber of commerce event, I can go to their website and look and peruse to who their members are. So I want to do a little bit of pre work and then I want to say how many people do I want to meet and what type of people do I want to meet.
We could end up getting very specific and say I need to find an accountant. And I see that Shelton and associates are going to be there. So I'm going to go find Ryan Kahn, who I expect is going to be there and I'm going to be very intentional with that. Or it could be all right, I'm looking for someone that's in the skilled trades because I'm trying to connect through and here's why I provide services to skilled trades. So I'm trying to build some deeper relationships. So I've got a plan, I've got a number. And thirdly, I create accountability. I know you're going to love this one, Ryan. So I want to go to my business partner. If you're a solopreneur, I'm going to go to my spouse or at least tell my dog in their ear or something. Right. And say, hey, When I go to this event, I'm going to meet three people. I'm going to come back with three names that's going to equal success. Not only am I going to come back with three names, each of them, we're going to set up a quick time for a phone chat over the next two weeks. Think about it, Ryan, a big networking event, 50 people were overwhelmed. What do we do? Who do we talk to? But if I go in there and say I just need three and over the next two weeks I'm going to talk to these three people on the phone for 15 minutes, that's not a high bar to jump over. You can do that and it becomes easier if you exceed it. Great, fine, fantastic. But keep exceeding it based on what am I trying to achieve.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: I love that so much. I do. The same thing you do is I always give my people things and threes and I imagine, let's just say it's a 30 day event and you go to the accountability like you're mentioning and you have your spouse, your business partner call you on night number one. Hey, have you met any of your three people yet? Yeah, I've met one or two of them. Okay. Hey, have you got their contact information? Heavy. Done. Etc. Then you come back and you said, hey, you gave yourself 30 days to figure out this relationship. We're at the 25 day mark. Where are you at in that process that accountability is tapping you on the shoulder. I think people don't grasp the value of what, what you're telling them and how simple it is yet how important and substantial it is in pushing that plan forward. So yeah, definitely, thank you for sharing that. So let me talk about in workflow. So now that you've established these relationships, you're giving yourself a plan and a number and the accountability to make them a reality. How do you get these relationships to then be woven into your actual workflow like your decision making process or your operations? I now have this new relationship. It's not just a connection, but it's a part of how I get things done. Where do we go from there?
[00:09:39] Speaker B: You know, I think that we go there into how our systems and processes are truly built. And I've started recently to talk to people about how there's a difference between having processes and, and having a system. So we can have our processes and procedures, the things that we do. But if we've got a system, it should bring to light when processes fail and it should support the natural flow of the processes that we want. So we want to Think about if I've got a strategic relationship that's internal, how do we dole out roles and responsibilities on certain jobs? What are the systems we've got in place that uphold our processes, that make sure things are taken care of, there's a name assigned to a task, that sort of thing. If the strategic relationship is external, perhaps as a commercial component, what are our revenue sharing processes that we have in place? Well, we share 10% of first contract. Okay, great. What's the system that's going to uphold that? How do we tie that into the sales system to make sure we're following through? And that can produce the automatic communication flags to go. Oh, Ryan gave you a referral. Give him a thank you phone call. That's part of our next step in the process. So I want to use systems to help support and reinforce the processes. Ryan, I like that.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: I like that a lot. And you've actually given me a really good spot to kind of stick the pin in the conversation as we jump to a break. But systems versus processes, I think that was a great, great dichotomy to separate out for us and getting things plugged into a system so that we can always tweak and improve our processes, that's important. And having those eng engaged in the process through the relationships, I love that a lot. That says some good wisdom. So we're going to come right back here in just a second, everyone, with more Will Hill right after this break on pivotal change. Sit tight. We'll see you in just a minute.
We are back. You made it through the commercial break and we have a very exciting guest, Will Hill, continuing on with us for this segment of the show. So we're going to jump right back into things with Will. But a quick recap is that we have been talking about relationships. That's the overall theme of tonight's episode and he gave us a lot of really solid wisdom. So if you missed any part of it, go back, rewind, replay, take notes and get your pen and paper ready for this section as well. So going on further with relationships, we're going to try to transition into relationships that are kind of along the subordinate, the staff side, the mentorship style of relationships. So we'll name of the show pivoting into that area. Tell us about some of the most effective ways that you found where you go and teach trust and meaningful relationships with your staff and the subordinates, especially once we get into those kind of high stress or high growth environments where the demands are put on us.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Sure. So since you like Threes, Ryan. I'll give you three.
One is give honor. I'll come to that in a moment. Second, provide clarity.
And third is correct quickly. Okay, so give honor. Especially in a subordinate type relationship, I need to honor their knowledge. I need to honor their individual abilities, skills, experiences. I might be calling the shots, I might be setting the direction, but I want to thank him. All of my communication. How can I honor who they are? I think that's really important and I think that's how we draw the best out of them. And frankly, while mentorship is not trying to make a mini me, and we can rant on that for a while later, this is a great behavior to model, to say, hey, I give honor to those that are around me. I don't just come in and throw my fist in the table and try to dominate. So that's the first thing. Second is give clarity. Oh, man, we've got to be clear, right? And when we're giving instruction, providing direction, maybe it's just a question. Rephrase, stop asking, do you have any questions?
Because when someone is asked, do you have any questions? Their brain goes, I don't know, am I supposed to. If I have questions, does that look dumb? Do I really have permission to have questions? What's going on here? What's the ulterior motive? Right? Instead, I want you to ask this. What questions do you have?
So now, as the leader, I'm simply saying, hey, I'm expecting some questions. I probably missed something. You may have not been sure about something. So what questions do you have? I want to tear down those mental barriers to them asking questions so we can drive at clarity and value clarity the way that it should be valued. The third I mentioned was to give feedback and correct quickly.
We don't have to let it linger, right? If there are mistakes and there are issues and challenges, let's bring it in quick and let's cut it and move. I don't want to allow bad habits to form. I don't want them to start thinking, well, this is right because no one's stopping me. Chances are, if you've identified something that's wrong, most of the time the subordinate or the other person you're working with has this inkling that it's not quite right, but they haven't heard yet, so it must be okay, right? And so in a lot of ways, if you're the communication giver, no news is not good news. But if you're the communication receiver, you're kind of operating that way, going, oh, they haven't told me anything else, so I'll just keep on going.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: You provided so much meat and potatoes just now, it's going to be impossible for me to try to paraphrase this back to you, But I really love the give honor. I love providing clarity. That's one of the very large corridors that I walk down with people, is how to actually provide clarity. And we go back into action plans and triplets and things like that. And this is what it means. Opening the door and getting permission to ask questions is paramount. People have to know they have permissions for things or they won't step in that territory. Not without some just highly driven initiative person. And then I just thought was really great for you to point out to the audience this must be right, because nobody is stopping me. What a dangerous field to be in. And so the correcting correctly, we call that here keeping short accounts. Right? So when you have praise or you have potential punishment, you want to keep short accounts and address it quickly. And I think we've probably all either been in the position or have to possibly deliver the position where here comes some annual or biannual eval, and there's a little black mark on the eval because something you did six months, nine months ago, hey, man, what the heck? You know, instead of keeping short accounts, and now the eval can say, oh, I delivered that correction. And here's the nine months of response you gave in a positive light. Two different evals. So great, Great.
That was just a lot. So very good. Thank you. So let's talk about backing up just a little bit when we're entering into this mentor mentee relationship. What kind of specific steps or maybe expectations do you set early on to make sure that it's going to be mutually. Mutually beneficial and productive, you know, because the mentor often gets stuff out of those relationships as well.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Same thing that I ask young kids when I coach sports. Ryan, you control two things. You're after hurting your attitude, and that's it. And that's what I want out of you. Give me the effort, have that learner's mentality, the attitude of what we're going to do. And when we combine those with me giving honor to who they are, we're going to be in a great place. I also think it's important you said set expectations. How do you do it? Well, let's start with you should do it right. I cannot tell you how many times as I've worked with firm owners and business owners and talking about frustrations with some of their staff, say, hey, what did you tell them you expected out of them when this started? And I just get that blank stare and the stutter back and I'm like, it's okay, you can tell me the truth if you told them nothing. Now we have to go back. We can't have conversation one if we never set expectations. We have to go back and have conversation zero. And unfortunately, you know, unless it's egregious and there's termination involved, their crimes can't be held against them if there hasn't been conversation zero. So we've got to have conversation zero and again have it quickly if you haven't asked or talked about their expectations. The other point is expectations should be a two way street. What do you expect out of me as a leader in this project, in this job, whatever it may be? What do you expect out of me? Because my goal is really the success of the job, the success of the person. And I need to understand their motivation and their expectation set to feed into them in a right way through that process. Right. Ryan?
[00:19:17] Speaker A: I love it. And for the audience, I'm always going to break the fourth wall with my audience. Will, that's something I'm not you guys, I'm. You can't see when it's off camera, but I'm just sitting here grinning ear from ear, ear to ear while Will's talking. Because these are just such impactful topics that when he said setting expectations is a two way street, I've never quite phrased it that way. But I have this system called the first four hours. And part of that system the leader is required to ask what are you looking to get out of me as your leader? What expectations have for me as a leader. And if people never think to answer that question, I think that turns things around. It gives those permissions for communication that we're talking about here. And it really opens a door that we're not even worried about that door anymore. We can just jump right through it and have a really blossoming relationship very early on. So that, that is all really, really good stuff.
So let's talk about kind of, we've established that relationship. We know what we're trying to get out of it. You know, talking with our subordinates and the two way street kind of even though that you're going to be the one ultimately directing and setting the more predominant expectations, we're always going to come up against things that are like habits and individual rhythms and various processes internally. Like I operate my desk different than my co worker operates their desk and so there may be individual things right there. How valuable are like regular check ins and goal settings that are a little more micro, a little more specific to the individual, Certain types of feedback loops, stuff like that. Does that get implemented? Does that help support and strengthen relationships? How is that done?
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think we can use rhythms to catch issues without feeling like I'm having to micromanage and always look at the project because the project design has certain stage check ins at the right point. It's got communication elements that are there so I can let those meetings and those rhythms handle the things that get missed or that we need to catch in the middle of it.
I think that what happens is when we're not purposeful with those, we lose the opportunity to make this about the relationship. So every time I go into those, I've got to think with clarity, I've got to think honor, I've got to think expectations. Right? And so those are some components that are there and that are super important. You also mentioned one other thing, Ryan, that I can't let go of. Hey, I run my desk this way, they run their desk that way.
In my work with firms and businesses, we're saying, hey, I need consistent processes. One of the things that team members value is autonomy and their individuality. And so you've got to think, if the process is A, B, C, Q, R, at what point in there does that individual get to express their autonomy and their individuality? Hey, I need you to follow the process. But when you get to the letter Q, you get to have your say with these three ways that we're handling this or these choices. Right? So if you don't tell them where they can be autonomous in their individual cells, they're going to buck against your system. And so I want to give that balance. Here's the consistent process, but here's the part where you get to kind of let your autonomy come through.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. And that goes back to what you said earlier about giving certain permissions and things like that. So if they know they now have that permission, otherwise they may just be trying to be a mimic of the person on their left or a junior version of the leader in front of them, when an autonomous system that works for them could help better. So that's, that's really good. So, last question. We've got about a minute to go here, Will. And I really want to ask one that kind of springs my law enforcement brain. And not everything's a life and death, you know, self defense scenario. But that's not always what it takes to get a fight or flight response. So how important is it somebody in a mentor relationship in observing your team's responses in, like, a flight or flight type of situation?
When there's a situation that's needing clarity, there's ambiguity. It's a new or different situation. The scenario has changed on people. How do we address that?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: So in the last week, Ryan, I've got a client of mine dealing with two different staff members at the business, and it dawned on me that both of them were struggling with a lack of clarity.
Here's the interesting part. One of them was lashing out, asking aggressive questions. We would say they're coming off defensive and the other was just going into the turtle shell and you would think something else was wrong or, oh, that person's never going to be productive. But in both cases, they lack clarity. But their personality styles dictated whether fight or flight kicked in at a lack of clarity. So if you are seeing fight or flight come out through a project in work, I would just say, ooh, do we have a clarity problem here? Because when people aren't sure, now all of a sudden, subconsciously, there's a safety concern there, right? If I'm not sure, I might fail. If I fail, I lose my job. If I fail, bad, bad, bad. So fight or flight kicks in. And so often we just want to deal with the fight symptom or the flight symptom instead of stopping and saying, hey, I've noticed you're frustrated. And I can say that whether they fought or flew and is that the right past tense? Whatever. But I can say I notice you're frustrated. Is there some areas that you're lacking clarity on right now?
And let's just ignore the symptomology. Let's dive right into the heart of the issue and see if we can't uncover where there is a lack of clarity.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: I like it. Well, this has been absolutely. You're worth your weight in gold is all I'm going to say, sir. So the fight or flight response, almost triggered by a fear of the unknown lack of clarity. Ask those questions first. Give clarity so there is no more fear. People can decompress. I love that so much. So everyone here, we're getting ready to jump to the halfway point. Commercial break. Will Hill, if we need to find you, how do we get a hold of you? Somebody is certainly going to want to pick your brain. How can we say I want to use Will Hill?
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Hey, jump onto my website, willhillconsults.com there's a feedback form in there to connect with me. Happy to chat.
Drop me a line. Looking forward to it.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Love it. Everyone else, sit tight. We'll be back with more pivotal change and more on relationships right after this commercial.
Welcome back. You are past the halfway point on tonight's episode. We had some great conversations with Will with our ongoing theme of relationships. And so I've got a familiar face back with us. We got Olga Hurtado. She is from Neat books, and you've seen her once before. And we're going to have a continuing conversation about relationships. She is really an expert at building relationships because she's done it in this huge journey that she took, and she's established them in multiple countries, being both bilingual and having two businesses. She's basically an international rock star, in my opinion. So we're gonna start talking about relationships. And Olga, welcome to the show.
[00:26:57] Speaker C: Thank you, Ryan. Thank you for having me.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Always my pleasure. You're super fun to talk to. And just a reminder for you if you have any really cool, awesome points to make, my audience should be listening with pen and paper, so you make sure to tell them to write that down if you hit a home run. Okay, so let's see. How are we going to talk about relationships? We're going to talk about being intentional. And so I want to ask you along your journey, how did you go about being intentional with building strong relationships and any kind of relationship? So whether that's like a mentor or a peer, even team members, how did that impact your growth as a leader and an entrepreneur? And how are you intentional about it?
[00:27:36] Speaker C: I think investing in the team, it's what is more impactful when you have a business. Okay. Because when you are like, when you become the mentor to your employees, to your team, that's when your business starts, like, you know, building momentum. And they are the ones who bring you those, like, feedback from clients. They are the ones who help you grow. So to me, being intentional in mentoring our team members have been, like, pivotal, you know, in the growth of my business. So keep in mind that training your team and making them grow and making them better in their positions in their. In their. In what they do is. It should be also one of your main goals as a. As a leader, as a team leader.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: I think that's a beautiful main goal to have as a leader is to develop the people around you. There's a pretty famous quote by a guy that has become a billionaire. His net worth is about $100 billion. And he says millionaires develop great systems, systems, great processes, but billionaires Develop great people. And so you seem to have a mindset very similar to his is it's all about the team and creating them. And you really dropped a little nugget in there that I don't want people to go without catching, is that you said, when you make it all about the team, this is what it says. It says, and you train them well, they're going to be the ones that bring back the feedback. They're going to tell you what the clients are thinking, what the clients are saying, and they're going to tell you what's working and not working. And so if people follow your advice and make one of their main missions being about mentoring the relationships with their team, that's going to automatically produce the growth that you're looking for. Is that a fair enough statement?
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Yes. Yes, it is. And you, when you do that, it automatically turns into your P and L and your bottom line. You will see that result in your numbers. That's a fact. Okay. Because then the numbers that customers bring, they are important, but the numbers that your employees bring, they are the ones who give you the measurement of your business. So don't forget that to me, it has worked.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: I like that a lot. So don't be focusing on the dollar signs going into the bank account. Be focusing on the productive, productive nature, the efficiency and the effectiveness of which your employees can grow and learn. And the dollar signs will be there. Right?
[00:30:01] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: I love it. So let me, let me expand on the next question. So surely you've developed either some strategies or some habits over the years. Have you, as you've helped to, like, expand and deepen these valuable relationships. So especially as your business has evolved, what habits have you noticed that you've developed or what purposeful strategies do you use in those relationships?
[00:30:24] Speaker C: Well, if we're talking about the team, let's say, for example, what I do is I always train them for between three to six months. Okay. Because you're not going to, you're not going to know whether an employee is going to be a good employee or not if you give them the resources to, you know, to fulfill their tasks or the goals that you have put them in. So I think that's one of the main habits I have developed in the, in my business also, the 24 hour, you know, deadline to respond to a client. So when you have a request from a client, what we do as a, as a, as a business, and this is something that everyone does at neatbooks, we always respond to requests within 24 hours. Okay. Unless you are not in the right tier. Okay. But most of our clients, they get a response. It doesn't matter the tier. We are trying to help them navigate some, you know, challenges with their businesses. And when you don't encounter any response from your financial team or you're from your accountant and you have this sense of urgency, that's when you get frustrated. So to me, the customer service and everything that has, has been strategized to our clients is a response that help them, you know, like, ease that frustration, ease that urgency. Because sometimes it's really urgent. Sometimes it's like, oh, I'm sorry, you. I thought it was urgent, but it's not. So I think those are the hobbies that we have, you know, that we have implemented. I have help help us grow.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: Well, I think those are really great habits and some good strategies as well. You know, I've always had this question that I ask. I have this system called the first four hours. And part of that there's just a discussion with the new employee. And I say, hey, what's a reasonable time period? If like your buddy or your parents shoot you a text message, what's a reasonable timeline for you to get back to them? Like assuming that you're busy or something's going on? Oh, I would say a few hours. Right? You got to to a text message with at least a few hours. Definitely by the end of the day. Okay, cool. If somebody shoots you an email, what's a reasonable amount of time for you to answer that email? And most people come up with the conclusion of like, oh, about 24 hours. You know, if they email you in the afternoon on Tuesday, you should probably get back to them by the afternoon on Wednesday. Now what if somebody calls you, there's a phone call and they actually dialed your phone, how quick should you get back to them? Like, oh, same day. Definitely same day. You know, something like that. Or I should text them and tell them when I'm going to call. Okay, good. So you formalized as a strategy for sustaining relationships, this habit or this subconscious understanding. People have you said, we're going to make it a conscious effort now. And I love that. And that's resulted in a lot of success for you. So. So that's really, really fun. The 24 hour rule. I like that a lot.
So you have that touch point. You have that as a part of your process.
Have you built any relationship nurturing and relationship utilizing things with your clients into your systems? Like you' mentioned feedback before. Like you have a system with your relationships or your relationships Gives you feedback where you petition them for their feedback, update them. And how's your journey with us going so far? You've been with us for five years. What the heck do you think? Year one versus year five, Anything like that for strengthening the relationship?
[00:33:47] Speaker C: Yes. Yes, we do. And we do it every year by the. By November. We hire this company called Clearly Rated. And what we do with them is that we gather all of our clients based on you that have worked with us throughout the year, and we. They send them the questions. And the questions are basically to measure us as their accounting firm. And sometimes they come up like, you know, very good and nice responses. Sometimes it's like, hey, you know what? This person didn't get back to me in 48 hours. Okay, that's, you know, oh, that broke the rule. But we try to measure our clients and their feedbacks, and we take action when we listen. Okay? When they say something is because we have to improve something. And that's what we do. That's how we do it every year. We roll out these interviews, these surveys. I'm sorry. And they just respond. And we have this score. And if we have this amount of score, we did it great. We have all these clients responding. And so far, it has been.
Hopefully it stays that way. But you need. You need to talk to your clients. You need to make surveys. You need to ask them, how are we doing? Because you think you're doing great, but then surprise, you're not, and they start leaving. You know, they start making their own and leave your business. So don't wait until that happens.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Well, I love that. That client feedback is perfect.
I think you kind of touched on it. You can really discover a blind spot, right? Like, you guys could be sitting here like, oh, look at us. We're so amazing. Johnny and Sally both complimented us last week. We're the best. Then you send out a survey, and then, boom, there's some, whoa. Everyone in your office always says this thing. Or they always send my documents here. And it's such a pain. And you're like, well, that system's broken. Or, oh, my gosh, we need to. We need to eliminate that phrase from our language, right? And then you can. You can discover a blind spot. So I think that's. That's a really valuable piece of information you gave people. You have to be scoring yourself, but not internally. You should be doing internally, but you need to be allowing that outsourcing outside the entities, your clients, to be scoring you and realizing if you have blind spots, that's. That's pretty interesting. So along your journey, I'm sure you've had some negative or toxic relationships in your, in your lifetime. I really want to know, how do you, like, one, identify them, but two, distance yourself from those toxic drain relationships. Like, how do you handle that? What effect does it have on you when you focus on eliminating those? Does it help or hurt your momentum to keep on one of them or cut one of them? Tell me more about that.
[00:36:30] Speaker C: Well, at the beginning, the toxic relationship, the toxic relationships, what, what the way they do to you is that you feel like, I would say scared.
And then you minimize yourself and you start like acting and behaving towards that toxic relationship. But that was me at the beginning. When you start, like building your business and you started growing confidence, you realize that those toxic relationships, they are not, they're full of drama. You don't need that. You don't have time for that. Okay? So you need to start creating your, your, like your safety space with people that align with your values and, you know, and your energy. So when that happens, keep in mind and open your eyes because those are energy stealers. And those toxic relationships, you need to move away from those and even, you know, more because you are a business owner, you don't have time for that. When you're a business owner, you need to be focused on your business, on your family, you know, on the time you're invested in yourself. So I have had some sort of, you know, toxic relationships throughout these 10 years of my business. But I understood that the most valuable relationship that I need to have is with myself and after that, with my family, with God, with, with, you know, you, you, you started, you know, building everything, you know, all together. But this, this toxic relationship, you always have to move them away from you and create that safe space for you and for your family.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: That's a really, really good series of statements that you made about how to evaluate, self evaluate the relationship and understand that that's an energy stealer. I really like that phrase. And if you don't let somebody go when they're stealing your energy, you're always going to be low on energy. I'm going to stick a pin in. Right here is a great spot for us to jump to commercial break. You guys stick right with us for the final segment and more Olga right after this on Pivotal Change.
We are almost to the finish line on tonight's episode, but we may have just saved the best for last. So we've got more Olga, more relationship talks, and we're going to get a Lot of wisdom poured out in this last window for you. You. So get your pen and paper ready. Hopefully your hand's not cracking yet, but if it is, you're actually obeying what we want you to do. And so we're going to start talking about building these relationships. So, Olga, my question for you. What do you believe are some of the key elements to building a long term relationship, you know, based on trust? And how do you get the clients to see that and go beyond just you have a product or service that they want?
[00:39:31] Speaker C: Well, I think a long term client relationship starts with empathy because when you listen and you really and genuinely care about their needs is when they feel the transparency and they build like the trust that, you know, that you are trying to show them. Okay. And I think also it's the proactive thinking of how can we partners and not just like, you know, service providers, we can help you and we can, we empathize with you. We are authentic. We are just regular human beings just like you and we can understand your needs. So that's how you start building long term relationship. Because they become friends. Like I have clients that they are friends of mine. Not because, oh, my beautiful face. No, it's because we built this beautiful empathetic relationship between the two of us, like, you know, between the client and the service provider.
[00:40:30] Speaker A: I like that they can immediately pick up from you that I'm invested in your success. I don't want you to fail. Your success is my success. And you know, to kind of spiral off that. One of the things we do is when we do that initial client interview and stuff like that, we really ask like, why are you even in this business?
You know, what are you looking to get out of it? What are your goals? What are your frustrations, your pain points? Most of the time they don't get that question from people. And now they realize like, oh, you're going immediately into a deeper level and that can develop relationships. Olga, have you ever been with a client through a difficult time of theirs? Maybe they were facing bankruptcy or who knows, a death or a divorce or outside personal circumstances that affected their business and their finances and you weathered the storm with them. Did that develop trust and loyalty?
[00:41:17] Speaker C: Yes, definitely it did. And it happened in the pandemic, Ryan, when it was when Covid hit. A lot of accountants were, you know, charging the clients to fill out the forms for the loan government, you know, for the loans the government issued. And it was chaotic. You, nobody knows what, you know, what we went through on those, you know, those months but we understood that our business, our clients, they were also struggling not only to understand what was going on with their businesses, but also that they, they didn't have the time to learn all these forms and everything. So what we did, we did it for free, okay? Because we understood, we put ourselves in their shoes. They didn't have any money. They were, you know, their, their businesses were shut down. So I think when you do those, those things to your clients, they, they also understand your, like, your flaws. Okay. And that's how you build those relationships. Because it's not only like money.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: I like that, that, that I, I call that relationship capital is that you did something, you stuck your neck out there for somebody and they remember that, right? And they remember that things get tight in the beginning or you have to make a difficult decision or hey, I'm changing my line of service because it's just not working out and it affects them. They understand that because that relationship capital. So that's really good. So you have these established relationships, a lot of them through some type of crisis like we just talked about. Well then how do you go about identifying and pursuing new relationships, especially ones that you think are going to be growth minded? And they're going to be some form, you know, they're not legal partners with you, but they're going to partner up in the way that you do business and the way the relationship is conducted. So it's mutually beneficial on both sides. How do you like level up by identifying those new types of relationships?
[00:42:58] Speaker C: Well, basically we do what you do. Like we ask the right questions. Right. And you need to be curious with your clients. You need to ask them and try to understand what their needs are. And it's, it's not only like in the service providers or the service realm, but also when you are trying to sell product that you need to listen to your clients, your customers so you can build that relationship. So don't stay only, you know, on the front. Like ask them the questions. Be curious. Ask, ask the right question, not ask the questions. Ask the right questions so you can build that momentum and that relationship with your clients.
[00:43:38] Speaker A: I like that so much. So you said two things that really rang like a bell is asking the right questions. And I'm going to deviate on a real quick story is in my detective years, I happen to be a very successful detective. I had the highest clearance rate. Great. Out of any detective. And one of the veterans came up to me and asked me, how the heck do you do that? How do you sweet talk all of these People into these confessions over some pretty darn serious stuff. And I said, I said the one thing, I was like, well, when I actually care about their outcome. And two, and as I ask the right questions, see, the average accountant. Accountant and the average detective will go out there and adjust the facts, man. And they would just want to know your numbers or they would just want to know where you were at what time and what place and what you were wearing. Right, right. And I asked a different set of questions that gave more to the care, more to the person, and why, what were you thinking and things like that. And I think what you just said is that's what identifies if the person doesn't care about me asking those questions, hey, just how much is a tax true. How much is your service? Well, they're compliance minded. They see me as an expense line on the income statement. Right. And that's not the, that's not the type of client I want. I want the relationship client. So you're, you're really rang out true. I think when you said ask the right questions. And again, that's cross industry. Whether you own a landscaping business, you're mowing lawns, you're building houses, you're pulling teeth. Right. Making sure you have the right client is important in all those categories. So thank you, thank you for saying that. And then the next thing you said kind of follows the same way says, be curious with your clients. Right. Curiosity may just be, you're a big nerd. But it also shows that like, I want to know more, I want to know more. People feel the empathy saying, okay, they actually do care about me. And that kind of, that just ripples back into everything you've said tonight. And those two things kind of rang out to me. So now you've asked the right questions and you start getting this client feedback. Do you ever find yourself in a situation where it's like, hey, there's a couple of things I'm not doing, or I could maybe even change and pivot just a little bit to better serve my clients based on their feedback, other than the survey you send out everywhere, maybe more organically because it's a relationship. How do you respond that client feedback when they say, hey, could you try doing this? Or hey, can you help me in an area? It's right on the fringe of what your scope is and what you're, what you're wanting to do?
[00:45:53] Speaker C: Yeah, that, that's a, that's a tough one, you know?
[00:45:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:58] Speaker C: Because sometimes you don't. You respect that. Okay. But I think with authenticity and naturality that. I don't know if that's. That's the English word for that, but. But everything.
It's like natural. It needs to be natural in the business. For the good or for the bad. Okay. So when the clients ask you those questions and when the clients give you that type of feedback, you need to do it naturally. You need to treat it like, okay, honesty. Let's sit down, let's dig it up, let's start finding the right answers to it. So don't be be scared about that, because that's part of the business.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: That's.
[00:46:39] Speaker C: That's how you grow. If everything is, you know, beautiful in your business, there's something wrong.
[00:46:47] Speaker A: I like that. If everything is beautiful in your business or something. Hold on, I'm going to write that down. If everything is beautiful in your business, something is wrong. I love that. Maybe you're just a naive person.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:58] Speaker A: So. Okay, I love that. All right. So that. That's really good. And I think that's true. And so if somebody comes in and they're rocking the boat a little bit, not. Not with malicious intent, but because, hey, I want more out of you, or, hey, I got these cool things going on in my situation. Can you handle it? Maybe that's not normally what we handle. You tell them that you'd be organic. Hey, that's kind of outside my wheelhouse. Yeah, but maybe I've got a guy or a girl that can help you with that.
We've come that. I don't like to ask too easy of questions on the show because I think the audience gets more out of watching our faces frown and figure it out. But something that we've tried, too, is we're like, hey, look, I want you to understand that that is not the normal process that we do. That's outside of scope. It's not exactly in our area of expertise. But, yes, we can actually handle that for you. But I want to hear you say out loud, you understand that this is an exception to the rule. You can't go tell your friends that we do this. You can't expect me to ever do it again. I'm going to do it this one time as. As an exception because I can get it done for you. You're in some type of urgent crunch, and we're going to help you out because you trust us, we trust you. But listen, this will not be a regular thing. And don't go telling Billy Bob down the street that we do this for a living, because it's going to Steal away from what we actually like to focus on. And people usually respect that, and they really get excited when you say, hey, I'm going to allow an exception for you. And that helps us deepen the relationship as well. So kind of the last question of the night, you know, another softball, right? So difficult conversations. You've got some unexpectation. You got a client that says, hey, I want a relationship to change, or I'm trying to push through boundaries. And maybe they're not as professional as you. Like, give us. Give us one way that we can handle a difficult conversation in a relationship that's already established.
[00:48:39] Speaker C: Well, I. I follow Phil Jones, okay? And he has a book called exactly what to Say.
And in his books, he says something really smart. The. The worst moment to think about what you're going to say is the moment you're going to say it. And I love that quote, because when you. When you have a business, you need to practice for those difficult conversations. Okay? Write down a script. Because I do it. Like, what happens if this happens? What happens if this happens? What's going to be my reaction to it? We need to listen and validate the client and what he's. What they're going to. What they're going to have to say about us. Okay? So be ready for the conversations and not in your mind. Like. Like, think about it and say it out loud. So you can start practicing for those difficult client conversations, because they're going to happen. Okay? I've had ton of them. That's a fact. Okay? So tough conversations build deeper relationships.
[00:49:40] Speaker A: I love it. So that's a perfect spot for me to jump in here tonight, because you want to have a plan and have practice. The plan is basically the best way to handle those difficult conversations. That goes right along. I have a whole system about understanding uncomfortable conversations in the three layers, and I'm not going to go into that for the sake of time. But if we want to find more about you, we want to find out about your services. We love your brain, so we want more of your brain. How can somebody find you? Tell us where to find you.
[00:50:04] Speaker C: Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. Olga Murtado. You can find my face there. So you can friend me or follow me. We can have also a conversation via email at customer success needbooks lc.com or you can follow me in my Instagram business. Secret ingredient for coming on the show.
[00:50:25] Speaker A: It's been a pleasure for everyone else out there. I just want to remind you to go out into the world and see the change and be the change. We'll catch you next time on Pivotal Change.
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