Episode Transcript
[00:00:32] Speaker A: And welcome to another episode of Pivotal Change. This is the show specifically designed for business leaders, entrepreneur entrepreneurs, or those looking to have more influence and impact on the world around them. I want to welcome you to the show and invite you to take notes as we have these discussions today because there's lots of content that you can use to implement in real world, real time to make that pivotal change you're needing to continue your path towards success. Today I have Talon Roman Figueroa with me, the boss diplomat, back on the show once again. Talon, thanks for coming back.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: It's like you can't get enough of me. Ryan, of course, I'll be happy to be back. Nice to see you again.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Well, that is true. With somebody that is as well put together and articulate and intelligent as you, I don't think anybody can get enough. So I'm looking forward to this discussion today because we're going to jump in on some things and talk about some strategies. We're going to talk about way to shift our mind and grow and all of the things that you really help people with, mostly through branding. But I want to start kind of on a little bit of a challenging topic. And I know that when you get in here and you're communicating with your clients, you're working, you're growing, at some point there's going to be an objection. What are some common objections that you get from your clients when they either fully don't understand or agree with the way that their branding is going or should be? I know there's always some enlightenment that needs to happen. How do you handle objections when it comes to establishing a brand?
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think one of the most common objections you can get, Ryan, but there's three common objections. The first one is mindset. If your mindset is not ready for growth, it's very hard for you to get out of that box and then break it open because you don't see yourself in that same position that I may see you in that position. The second one, of course, is money. So there'll be a lot of financial objections. I don't have the money. I can't afford it. This is too much, all of that. But if it's important enough, of course you, you're willing to invest in it and take that risk because you know this business is risky by nature. So why not bet on yourself and put that money there instead of spending or wasting that money somewhere else? That's really not going to benefit you. And then the third most common objective is I'm not ready it's the timing issue, right? I'm not ready. I have other things going on. I'm buying a house in six months time, blah, blah, blah. But again, if your business is that important and if you don't fix it right now, what makes you think that money is going to be flowing into your business? If you still have the same problem, you're just delaying fixing that problem at another time. You're not doing yourself any favor whatsoever.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: I really like that. And I kind of want to comment on these in a backwards order. You know, the I'm not ready, you know, as far as it goes is establishing a brand because you've mentioned to us very much that you are the brand.
Your brand is being written whether you're doing it consciously and on purpose or subconsciously without paying attention to it. And you don't want a brand that is developed under naive circumstances. You want to do it purposefully. So yeah, that, that I'm not ready. The clock is ticking. I think that's really important for people to hear. I appreciate you mentioning that. Money is going to be an issue for people all the time. We kind of have in our little business that says once you have established the value and people can see and recognize the value, money is almost a non issue if value is there. And so when people truly believe in themselves, transition from that mindset. If this is what I'm hearing you say, they get the mindset that I need to establish my brand, then they're going to see the value in themselves, bet on themselves, like you said, and you're able to work through all three of those objections. It sounds like.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Do you know what the scariest thing you can do is actually measure your time, your lifespan, how long you potentially can live for.
So this is a challenge and an exercise for or your audience. Ryan, One year equals one box. So imagine drawing a hundred tiny little boxes in a grid.
One year equals one box equals one year of your life. Fill that in and see how many empty boxes are left. Now that is a really scary representation of your life on paper. And when you see that you've used up most of your life already, oh my God. That is a massive motivator for you to say I don't have a lot of time. You have no guarantee how long you're going to live, but let's assume you live to 100. That's 100 boxes. If you're 39 years old like I am, that's half my life gone. It's really scary when you think about it. Like that, but that is one of the things that motivates me to make sure that when I make a decision, I don't make a decision six months from now. I make it tomorrow for today.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: I love it. Scary good because it's motivating. You know, we did a similar exercises when I counted the Saturdays I had left before my teenage son goes off to college. Well, guess what? We get a lot more impact out of every Saturday now. So I like that. So that's kind of a little bit of a metric, which is, which is really leading me to. My next question is. So we've got over these objections. We've. We've got somebody to understand their mindset and their value. How do you establish then clear and measurable success metrics for how your brand is going? Is it growing? Is it have practical steps that can be implemented to say, hey, let's go this far in this capacity to make sure that we're getting a return on that investment in establishing our brand?
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Well, some. Your personal brand definitely does have a compound interest. The more you put into it, the more you get out of it. It's kind of like saving money in a investment or something. You put that $5 and in 30 years from now that $5 is no longer $5 anymore. It's like three times as much or I don't know maths very well, but that's the basic analogy. And that's the same principle when it comes to building your personal brand. Your personal brand never depreciates. It always appreciates. And I have people asking me, well, I bet you only work with young people because they've got a long way to go. And then the people who are 60 plus, there's no point starting a personal brand. A lot of my clients are actually 60 plus because they are about to retire. They don't know what to do with themselves. And they know that they've got a ton of wealth, health and experience to build something for the next 30 years of their life. Personal branding makes complete sense for them. For the younger crowd, they're a little bit behind.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. I think, I think it makes sense for everybody. After having these conversations with you, seeing a lot more of what it is you actually do. Why would you not establish Your brand at 15 or at 35 or at 65? It still brings value to your life and more wealth and health and freedom for you. So I think that's, that's absolutely beautiful. So let's continue down the path of mindset because you just talked about the mindset of the 30 year old versus the 60 year old.
If I want to say, hey, I'm working with you, Talon, and I just, I don't fully get the picture. I know I need a brand, I know it's going to help me in some way, but I have these mental blocks that is maybe causing me to vocalize those three objections to you. Could you give me any type of exercises, any type of actionable steps to say this is how you need to think and feel and talk and walk about yourself in order to get your mindset right and then get your brand growing and prospering?
[00:07:48] Speaker B: You know, the funny thing is, I just worked with someone this morning with that very same problem where there was a mindset issue. And this individual kept thinking about his situation right now, why, where he's working, how old he is right now, what he just accomplished for himself. And he, it was very hard for him to think outside of that beyond that. Now when I told him, hey, what would happen if that employer let you go tomorrow? Or what would happen if you decided that you didn't want to be in this city anymore, you wanted to move, your connections with this community, so to speak, will be completely gone and you will have nothing left because you're depending your experience and your, in your life around other people.
And then I gave him an exercise. I said, look, this is. You're stuck in this tiny little box. I want you to break out of it, just claw yourself out. And you know what he did, Ryan? He's like, okay, I'm going to visual myself in a box. And he, he felt himself clawing out, but his clawing was like, it was so hard for, even figuratively to get himself outside of that box because he knew that I kind of hit a nerve when I told him that thing.
[00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that a lot. And I think you hitting a nerve is what a lot of people need. A lot of people, for some reason, can't find it in themselves to really make that final push to get that mindset over. So the fact that you were able to have somebody create a visual, rely on a metaphor of how they view themselves, and then react with that, that they need to write down a way to find a metaphor that they can refer to themselves to and then challenge themselves inside of that metaphor, whether it's a box or something else.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: I have one more way.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: The other thing that I tell a lot of business owners is how is your messaging? Is your messaging soft, fluffy, very corporate? Or are you making them feel the pain? And my Analogy is, okay, imagine there's a scab right there. Put your finger in it just like. Or put some salt on that wound. We want your audience to feel that pain so deeply.
That's how they know that they need you to fix that problem. Salt in the wound.
Yeah, whatever works.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: That's something I love that you're not solving someone's inconvenience per se. I mean, there is a value to having a convenient life and a convenient product. But you want to solve somebody's pain point, not their mild inconvenience. Right. And so I really appreciate you saying, hey, they need to make sure that they are recognizing their pain. You might have to put your finger on it because the doctor says, hey, does that hurt? And you go, oh, yeah, it does. Well, now I can treat that injury. Same thing. You have a pain point. I'm the person to treat your injury through my brand, my market, and my services. So that's really beautiful. So what I want to do is I want to transition here in just a moment. We're going to pause for a break here in just a second. But if you have somebody that is not staying true to their core brand, maybe it's because there are market trends or there are changes to their industry. What is one thing you would tell them to say, yes, it's time to be flexible, or no, it's time to double down on who exactly you are and what you offer.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Oh, this was a. This is a good question, because I used to do the same thing with the politicians and diplomats that I used to work with, because again, they've got everything. They've got the status, the money, the prestige, the title.
And then they forget, why am I doing here? There's a lot of distractions that's going to get in the way that will filter you, color you, will give you a different perspective. And my job is to say, I'm going to pull you back, remember why you started. Tell me that story again. And it kind of brings and triggers a lot of memories for them. And then they realize, right, this is the reason why I started. And they forget that. So it's just a matter of taking a step back, me getting my elbow in and hitting them a little bit, making them feel the pain. And that reminds them, I forgot I had a purpose. I need to refocus back onto that purpose.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: I love that. So remind them, say, hey, tell me your story again. Tell me the why. Tell it back to yourself all over again and bring you back to your center. And that will provide you the Answer of yes, this is a good pivot or no, this is a time that we need to stand firm. I love it. We're going to take a quick break right here. We're going to come back with more of this wonderful conversation. Everybody sit tight. Review your notes, and we'll be right back after these commercials on some more pivotal change.
We are back from the break and ready for some more pivotal change and even more so ready for some more of the Boss Diplomat. So, Talon, we're going to keep this conversation rocking and rolling, but for the sake of the audience, I want them to see your mug.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: This is me in mug form. I'm not bossy. I'm just aggressively helpful.
[00:13:12] Speaker A: I love it. We have good conversations over the break about lots of things. And I think part of branding is how you identify, articulate, and change the way people view you from what an outside perspective might be. I'm going to define myself. Somebody else isn't going to define me. And I think your mug does that very well, just like, of course, you and your entire brand does. So with that being said, if we can look at some way to indicate that my brand is working, my brand is having success and influence, are there some type of indicators or qualities that seem to show their faces that tell me things are working? A benchmark has been reached over time.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So it really depends on the individual's goals, because everyone has different goals. Money should never be an indicator of how successful you were, because that can disappear in a heartbeat. So I do this practice with my clients. I meet them at least a year or two from when I last worked on their brand, and I would ask them the very same question. What has changed for you since we finished working on your brand? And one of the biggest things that my clients tell me is I had the courage and the confidence to write a book or host a TV show or host a podcast. Hosting, not just being in those shows or people see me differently, they view me differently, they perceive me differently in a much more positive light. That's also another indication of success. And of course, less people saying no to you and more people saying yes to you, which is exactly what you want. So your market value actually goes up because of the way you've strategically put your brand together. That is a good indicator of success in your brand.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: I love that so much. So you're effectively finding ways and what you just said to measure the growth of your influence. And so for me and a lot of my materials, I teach something based off of a model called the sphere of influence. Influence. And Your sphere is 360 degrees every direction. And it grows over time as you increase your certain qualities in yourself. And so you're, you're echoing the same thing that, that the audience has possibly heard from me before is that you're going to look at now. You're not just a guest on a podcast, but you're hosting a podcast or maybe you're just a recurring contributor. You've got new editorials, you'll be asking to give speeches, your friends are referring people to you. People are starting to follow, pay attention and utilize. And of course, money comes with that value. And I couldn't agree with you more that money should not be your motivator. It should be a happy byproduct. Right? So I like that. I like that a lot. So if we're going to do some more assessment, tell us about some effective ways that I can do an assessment or I can preemptively. So maybe I'm just starting with the conscious effort of developing my brand. What is a way I can say, hey, I want to assess this in the future and maybe actually set some preemptive future looking benchmarks for myself to say by 6 months, 12 months, 24 months. This is the impact, the reach or the activity I would like to be engaging in.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Okay, so I have another cool homework that people can try. Considering that it is just the start of the new year, having a vision board is actually a really great visual way to get to your goals, not just quicker, but consistently so. What I did, and this reel is actually available on my Instagram at Boss Diplomat.
Create a vision board, but split it into four parts. The first part is wealth. The second part is health.
The third part is relationship. And the final part is self. So because you're able to compartment, compartmentalize those four different areas, things that you want to achieve in 2025, that could be something as simple as calling your parents more consistently. Get a picture of that, stick it on the board, add quotes that resonate very, very much with you and put that in your bedroom. And that's the first thing you see when you wake up and the last thing you see before bed. It is so hard to ignore.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Yes, make it, make it where you're going to trip over it is kind of what one of the, one of the things that I tell people is like if I have to do something, whether I'm office. So we have a rule, no papers on the floor, right? No papers on the floor. Because as I told you before the show, we're in a paper industry. The IRS is going to send me paper. I have to deal with paper. I can't be completely virtual. But if I have to have something go out today, I turn and I exit my desk and I will put a piece of paper on the floor. So I literally have to step or trip over it. Right. And I cannot go home without that thing. If my wife says bring this home from work, I have to put that to where I trip over it in order to be successful. Right. Otherwise man brain kicks in. I forget to bring my wife whatever she asked me. Okay. And though. So I tell people you have to put it to where you're going to trip over. So your vision board in the metaphorical sense needs to be put in a position where people are going to trip over it every day and therefore accomplish their vision.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: But having those four compartments is what makes this one very different. Because it's very easy to say I want to make this much but then not know how to do that. But then you're forgetting self care, then you're forgetting the relationships around you, then forgetting the fact that your health is behind that wealth. So it's important that you have a balance when it comes to what you vision for yourself for the rest of this year.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: I think the quadrants are crazy important. Crazy important. You and I can have conversations about quadrants and putting things in quadrants forever because I'm mathematical analytical and, and that's how I organize a lot of things. I think tetrahedrons are one of the most powerful geometric shapes and of course there's four sides there. So I love it. You just made me nerd out for just a second. So thank you for the. The next part I want is as you go to achieve these goals, you have this influence. You've got these metrics that are tracking it. You've got this vision board that is making you achieve it in all four areas. Now you get to the point where, okay, some big things are happening. I'm so big to increase my bandwidth. People are noticing me and people want to partner up with me. Maybe there's an opportunity for a merger so I can skyrocket to that next level. Now comes in a difficult game of balance. If I do a merger or take on a partner, they are not the exact same core that I am. And the brand is myself and I now take on a partner or two it's selves. How do you handle situations like that? When a brand is established and growing and here comes an opportunity that can't be Missed.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: The question will be how much do you want it? How much control do you want to really relinquish and how willing are you to step away from this when you're giving up 100% of that shareholder or that power? I think those are the questions that you, you have to ask because your personal brand is going to move with you whether you sell a company or not. That's something that you have defined. It's very strategic and it moves with you no matter what you're doing. It doesn't have to be related to a business. You can have that merger or you can buy out a business, or you can sell a business. But the very core of who you are and your personal brand, that's not for sale. That's not what you're selling. It's the operations. What is really what you're selling, or the products within it, or the infrastructure. The person that you. That cannot be sold is you. Your name can be sold, but not you. So how much of that power do you want to give up? That's what you have to decide.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: I really like the mental.
The mental basically ice pick you stuck right in there. You are not for sale. Some of your image or some of your name or of course your product or operations could be for sale, but you are not for sale. Mentally, you need be able to separate yourself from whatever that ultimate product or service is so that you're not selling yourself and leaving a void or attempting to change who you are becoming. Something that goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is the exact reason you got into it, the exact reason why you became what you want to become. So I really. That was a little bit heavier advice, which, which I really appreciate that. So I like going heavy too. So let's continue down that road of, you know, things start to change, businesses are growing, market dynamics. You know, I could say myself, you know, I'm in the accounting world, is one of my primary businesses in the consulting business. And all of a sudden, let's say, poof, there's a new election and you don't have to pay taxes anymore. Everybody gets a flat 10% tax. No advisor like me is needed to save you tax liability because it doesn't matter what you're doing, it's 10%. My whole world changes in my brand was I'm a tax advisor. That's pretty extreme. But let's say the industry, the market does change or some regulation to who you are, what you do.
How do you have to pivot yourself keeping the core center of who you are. But now shifting because market industry demands make what you used to do not as viable.
[00:22:03] Speaker B: You can, there's audiences that might need you somewhere else. So again, you are not, you're not stuck in that geographical area that you're in. If you've already got a brand, that brand is going to be carried with you no matter where you are in the world. So that's the first thing. And the second thing that I always advise my clients to do is don't put your eggs in one basket. Not your niche per se, but you're actively building a business with your brand as the magnet. But always ensure that you have multiple passive income streams that are coming into your life outside of your brand because that's going to be the buffer that keeps you afloat for you and your family outside of your personal brand. Because your personal brand shouldn't be doing the heavy lifting. Your personal brand should be attracting the right opportunities to you. Right. That's the magnet. So your magnet is always going to be attracting something. It's also going to be repelling something. Do you want to make sure it's repelling the right thing? But it's attracting opportunities. But you can't rely on that one magnet pulling everything because if there's no more magnets left, you're stuck. And that's what you're suggesting. So yeah, build passive income streams. Learn about that. And you know Ryan being in finance and accounting, he will know exactly how to help you build that passive income stream. It's fundamental.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: Might know a thing or two about that. That's good. So wonderful advice. Don't back yourself in a corner or contain yourself in a box. Geography is nothing special or magical that has to be held onto. Build yourself multiple streams of revenue that your brand supports those things and attract people to them. And I really like that's a whole other conversation that I'm going to put a pin in. Is that how to like a magnet, repel things from you that are not meant to be in your life? So let's, let's put a mark right there and I'm going to save that one for next time. So Talon, how do people get a hold of you? They want to do everything that you just said and they want you to be the person that brings it to them. Where do we find you?
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So thank you for that. So jump on my website, it's www.bossdiplomat.com. you will see exactly how I work. My 100 day branding process is built for small business owners. I Build your brand, a powerful personal brand in 100 days. And if you want to have a chat, you can find me on Instagram at Boss Diplomat. And last but not least, if you want to get in the hot seat, I host a podcast called the Fairy Boss Mother Show. Get your brand reviewed for free. Get in the hot seat. If you want the kiddie gloves on, I can give you a feather dusting review, but no one ever takes that option. So take up the challenge.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: I love it. Thank you very much for coming back with us and we'll be seeing you in the future. I know for sure. Everyone else, you sit tight, buckle in. We're only halfway through Pivotal Change. We'll see you right after this break.
Sacking and rolling. We are on the second half of the show and we have got an all star guest with us that is coming back. We have Will Klosovsky. Now, he is got just a man of many talents, but he is largely in the cyber security and developed in advisory services with getting project management underway. And he just wears several hats and really knows how to drive a business to the next level. So Will, welcome back to pivotal Change, sir.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Yeah, Ryan, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. And hopefully answer some questions.
[00:25:45] Speaker A: Yes, sir. And I always tell my audience to watch with a pen and paper. So hopefully if you have any challenges, exercises or for things that they need to go check on or implement, you make sure to shout those out to the audience. So what I want to do is I want to kind of get started on the cyber security side of questioning and I want to start with maybe a theme on this segment of the show of New Beginnings. We're still near the new year and people are still re looking over their yearly budgets, their yearly security procedures, the HR policies, all kinds. And so I want to start with a business that's just beginning to prioritize. They're in the beginning stages saying, man, I really need this. This seems to be important. World's changing. What are some of those most critical first steps in order for them to establish that strong foundation to protect them from any of those potential threats?
[00:26:31] Speaker C: Yeah, the, the interesting thing about it is cybersecurity. People get kind of caught up on the technical side of it and sort of all the big scary stuff. But it really is about knowing your business processes and the, and the things that you have. So absolutely step one, and this is how anybody builds any kind of program and security is understanding what assets you even have. What an assets goes beyond, you know, your printers and your laptops, but also what applications do you have? What locations do you have? What data do you have? Which is a big one. Understanding the data that you take into the organization, how you use and manage that data, what data processes. A lot of companies will fail in having those process flows. So everybody always says, oh, well, this one email works this way and this thing does that. And then, you know, as soon as somebody like me shows up to do an assessment and I start asking them questions, they're like, well, wait, that's Mary's job. Let me bring her in here. And then, well, okay, then what? Well, that's Bob's job. And then they don't realize how complicated and how all this data gets spread apart. So step one is getting an idea of that environment and getting a hold of it and then being able to say, okay, this is what I have. How important is it? And what. What's more important, what's at risk.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So really getting that comprehensive understanding, like you said, not just of your assets, but of your people and their responsibilities of those assets. And I think, you know, I think everybody's really afraid of probably two major things. The data breach, where they just simply got a hold of your information. And I think the other one that really scares people is ransomware type of stuff. But I can also, would you tell me, or if, you know, off the top of your head, which is more common, an internal cybersecurity risk, like an employee steals, uses, or misuses either through negligence or maliciousness, internal data and processing, or remote attacks through phishing scams and, you know, Trojan horses and things like that.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: It's funny because the answer is both, because they kind of go hand in hand. So if you look at like the IBM cost of a data breach report, I think they say of all, like, ransomware is like the number one thing that happens. But it doesn't just happen. There's a process to get it into the environment and to be able to deploy it. And that is usually through things like phishing and social engineering. So the reason that the answer is both is because that's what happens is typically they will leverage something, but somebody internally, whether they get their credentials or they just convince them to do something they're not supposed to, because most people aren't really doing anything. They're not. They're not malicious. They're not doing things with malicious intent. They're just trying to be a nice person and provide customer service. So they're responding to the person they think is it on the phone and giving something up that they're not supposed to. And then that's how the breach happens. And so that, that part of, like, where ransomware is the highest one, if you look deeper into that, a good, I think 25% of all the breaches are human error, which is, you know, potentially attributed to that as well as. Then there's a small sliver of like, you know, we, we had a missed. We misconfigured something. So the majority of things are getting done because of. There's people involved.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: I got you. Yeah. People trying to be nice. So understanding your people, giving them good internal training and directives and of course, protocols to follow. That, that's pretty, pretty good place. So you had mentioned too, in your last one about determining kind of the orders and the workflows and having to call in different people once that you start doing your assessment and asking different questions.
Tell me a little bit more about how do you determine the order? What would be a good way for somebody to say, hey, I need to get an order so that I can protect myself the best? What's step one, step two, step three, as far as, like, how a workflow should flow? And I know I want you to talk kind of on a large umbrella because each industry is different, but there's got to be some considerations that people can build off of, truly. Right. Yeah.
[00:30:20] Speaker C: I think it, again, the, your, your niche is going to define some things, but at the end of the day, it's really doing a business impact analysis, which is taking all those assets, all that data that you have and know, and then starting to look at, how important is this to my business? Right. Is this the data that actually makes me money? One that kind of important. The other kind of importance is, is this something that a regulatory organization will find me for if I, if I lose this or if it ends up being mishandled, things like that. Right. So it's. You've got two things that are going to drive what you even need to protect to begin with, and then it's a matter of, well, how much do I need to protect it? So the, the nice thing about regulations is they kind of give you those guidelines to say, here's what you have to do and here's how you have to protect it. But for stuff that's, you know, business critical, you may not have those. So you'll start to look at what you have and where it is. And then it's kind of like we talked about with the ransomware stuff. Okay, how can I lose? Like, how can this get breached, taken away from me, Exfiltrated whatever that, whatever you want to say, you know, how can it harm my business? And what's the ways that somebody could get in there. So the old adage is I always say don't put laser beams in your air vents before you lock your doors. Right. If your door is wide open, it doesn't matter that you put a bunch of really expensive controls just to aware the two hard to get to place that people aren't probably going to go with. The same goes with if this piece of data or this asset is only worth $100 to me, if I lose it, then I don't need to spend $10,000 making sure that it doesn't go away.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I like that a lot. And your laser beams and air vents is. I could tell a funny police story when we have more time around another day about that exact situation. But that gets me kind of moving in the long way. So they're developing a system, they're developing the, the 1, 2, 3, which is more important, which is I want to say, worthy of protection, 100 thing that I can just replace or the million dollar data breach. Right. And so once we do that now we've built, okay, I feel safe now inside of these security parameters. I need to start product and getting my services out to people. And so you're going to help people say, hey, now we're protected. We're in compliance with regulatory, we're in compliance with what your insurance policy wants and just using good sound security measures. Now let's go deliver the product. Let's build a platform to deliver that product interface back and forth with the customer and get business done. How do you start that approach and identify the stages or the phases that take you into those delivery needs?
[00:32:56] Speaker C: Right, that's kind of your typical product management life cycle that exists. And I say that for those people who have ever, you know, built a piece of technology that they want to sell, it's pretty common practice, but people kind of forget you need to do that around services as well. You need to understand where you are today, what the demand is for that service and how you're going to deliver it. And then you know, associated with what the risks are around that. Right. So how do you protect against those risks? And again, similarly, how expensive is it to protect it versus you know, how much do I have to, you know, versus how much do I spend on it? Right, that kind of stuff. And then having a plan of what does this look like in the future, how am I going to be able to improve upon it? You know, to keep it market relevant, that kind of stuff. So I think it's, it goes back to that planning aspect of things, which I'm a big person that says before you do anything like spend a little extra time planning, it will always work out in the, It'll, it will always be beneficial in the end.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I think that's so great. And I think a lot of us get caught in that daily grind, that daily rush. If I just need to produce, produce, produce that we don't ever take the breath, track our process, write the important things down and say, oh yes, it does have to flow from A to B to C to D. We can't jump straight to F, otherwise we have to throw it back to B and start all over again practically. And people will see these systems, they want customer satisfaction, they need to have taken that pause to understand what's the best way to overcome these objections or not have to process refunds because they're mad at us and, and we can go, we can go work this on. So I think that's really good. You said a lot of really important details. I hope everyone that heard that goes back and re. Listens or was writing them down. Those, those are going to be good, juicy bullet points for you in your future. So continue along the line of first steps.
Beginning to develop cybersecurity and service management processes together is very, very important. Right. They're ultimately going to go hand in hand, but there's got to be some type of just common pitfall that you can say, hey, I, hey guys and gals out there, I see this happen all the time, and I see this happen all the time. Can you shoo our audience here away from a couple of those common pitfalls of either skipping something, neglecting something, getting too redundant. But what can you help us with as far as security and processes?
[00:35:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I think about, you know, common pitfalls. Right. If you're thinking from a product standpoint, from a services standpoint, one, trying to make it too perfect too fast and realize you kind of needed to get out and get some feedback, that's usually, that's kind of a, you know, standard in the startup world. So anybody's ever created something from scratch, they know you don't wait to get it perfect. I think the biggest pitfall from a security standpoint is not thinking about the security upfront as part of that design process, that develop, process, whatever again with whatever it is you're building, selling or doing.
Because almost always if you just try to, if you, if you just Try to bolt the security on after the fact. It's not necessarily going to fit right. And you're going to come into, you're going to have, you're going to come into conflicts and problems and you're going to have, you know, it may impact user ability, user capabilities or user use, friendliness, that's the word for it, or, and end up, you know, then you end up pulling it out because, well, it doesn't work with the product or doesn't work with the service. So I think thinking about it in tandem at the same time, again, doing that planning and not ignoring it to begin with.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: I really, really like that. Making security a part of that development and building process. Don't just go do something and look backwards and say, oh, how am I going to protect all of this? But build it, build it along the way. We had an incident with our police department where we got to move into somebody else's old building. Well, this building was not a police department. It was, it was a utility building that fit square footage, our needs. But we spent decades retrofitting it over time to make it function as a police department and ultimately was much better than where they came from. But it was, it was a lot bigger of a project than they intended. So this has all been really great about talking about beginnings and where to start and how we get our first processes going. I'm going to put a pin in right here. We're going to jump to a break real quick, Will. Then we're going to come back and we're going to talk about looking to the future. So everyone else, stay tight. We got one final segment and we're going to be looking to the future with Will when we come back for more pivotal change.
Foreign we are back for the final segment of the night. We've got Will with us and instead of looking at the beginnings and the starting procedures, we're rocking and rolling, we're looking to the future. So Will, jumping in with that mindset, talking strategy, we want to recommend how that we, how we can go forward with whatever content we're creating. If we have a go to market plan for something that we've built, well, we've protected it and now we want to get it out there. How do we remain relevant and adaptable with what we are releasing and putting out there, knowing that the industry is inevitably going to change in some capacity, right?
[00:38:15] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, whatever your product or service does needs to anticipate the change for sure. And that that's kind of on you to make sure that whatever you're building is relevant and needed. But on the go to market side, on the content side, I think the most important part is, is looking at the trends really. So and what I mean by that is how people are actually going to want to learn about your product, learn about your service, right? Not just doing something that has always been this, you know, this is always how we do it. We do, you know, we're going to do these kinds of ads and this kind of stuff. And out there like if you look today, a big thing is realness. And I kind of use that word kind of half heartedly, but nobody wants to watch fake stuff. They want to see real, genuine things happening. So as a business, the content you have to produce has to be genuine. It has to look like something real is going on. Same thing from an information standpoint. If you write a blog, it needs to be educational and informative, not a pitch, right? So that's kind of the world we're in today. So I think looking at the, looking at how the, your potential clients are going to respond to that type of stuff and then being able to build your brand and your go to market.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Around that, I like that a lot. And would you say that there's possibly some bandwidth issues that you could throw in there as well as you don't want to just max out all hands on deck, all resources, stuff like that. You need a little cushion either for emergencies or for growth and change to the market, you know, and that way when something becomes real, you can share that real experience by having built in the bandwidth to adapt and then share not only that story but that product.
[00:39:59] Speaker C: Right. I mean honestly there's a, that's just a great way to do your, your marketing in general, if I'm being honest. I like to say like when I create, I don't like, I don't like to say I create content, I document what I do. So all I'm doing is sharing my experiences with people, right? So it's 100%. This is just, this is the screw up I had today. This is the thing I learned working with these managed services company, this is the thing I learned from this cybersecurity person. And so you're just sharing that content and people are learning from that information. And then for me like as a, as a brand that builds my brand up and says, well this is somebody that, you know, I'd like to work with. So you could do the same thing within your own branding is, you know, show not just showcase, oh, here's the product or here's the service and here's a lot of blinky lights. But, you know, actually your people, that's one thing, right? And then also showcasing, you know, the real things that are happening.
[00:40:49] Speaker A: I like that a lot. I think, you know, exposing yourself, your vulnerabilities to your failures and your mistakes. One of the things that I really try to do on the side of my consultation that is specific to other accounting firms, one of the things I tell them is, guys, I made a lot of really painful mistakes over the two and a half years it took me to truly figure this out and have it done. I would like for you to learn from all of my stakes mistakes. Instead of two and a half years almost, I'd like you to do it in two and a half months. Right. And there's a realness and a genuine quality course. I got a lot of life experience out of that. But. But it makes it real, you know, like, like you said, because they're in that suffering point. And I can help get you out of it. You're in some type of process where you need a service built, you need a delivery platform built, you need protection. And guys, I've been there, I've been in the market, and I'm going to help you with that. So I appreciate you exposing that. That is something that I think will probably hit home pretty good with the audience as well, and then kind of, kind of flows in with anticipating needs. You know, for me, I get to say it's easy. I get an easy button on this one. Right. Because me to anticipate needs. I know at a bare minimum, every four years we're gonna have an election cycle and some tax code is going to change. And I can build that in now. Congress can vote and pass things a lot more frequently, and they do that all the time. But I really easily get to say, hey guys, we need this much training this frequently for all the tax code issues out. Right. That's given to me. Unlike people who have unexpected market change, maybe some new huge regulation comes out and the whole industry has to pivot. Right? So in anticipating needs, how do you get people to effectively be looking even at all, at the future, that at some point we're going to encounter a.
[00:42:26] Speaker C: Problem or change, Right, Sure. Yeah. That goes back into sort of that product management mindset or just having a business roadmap and understanding that your business, if you want it to be successful, is going to change over time too, based on the market conditions and a lot of times what I'll do in some of my engagements when I'm assessing businesses too is I'll look at your ideal client profile or what you say your ideal client profile is, and then I'll look at your actual sales and then we compare those two things together and go, well, you think you're selling to the mid market but you're actually selling to the sm, the small business space, or you think that manufacturing is really valuable to you, but actually you got way more, you know, way more opportunity in this retail organization. So taking that time to actually look at what it is you're, you're, you're doing delivering and who you're delivering it for and then on the next step there is talking to them, not just delivering your service, delivering your technology, whatever it is with them, but actually going, hey, we're engaged and you're going to have. Your business is also going to change in a few years. What are you looking at right now? Right, you know, what technologies are you looking to adopt, what types of things, what's going to change in your logistics or whatever it is, right? Understanding their business and how that changes and then you being prepared to adapt for it. I always say you don't want to.
It doesn't do me any good to sell you a service that you need now. I need to know what service you need in three to five years from now so that I can be there to deliver it.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: Well, and you say that too is if I'm providing you a product or service now for today, right, I can be building a product and navigating you into the right position where this product gets even more use. Maybe it's helpful today, but it's critical in the future because we've built it down your path. So I love that statement a lot. I think that's really important to look is that, you know, my dad used to do something that I did not appreciate until I became a father and drove kids around back when you could only print off directions on MapQuest or you had to use a map, one of the two, right. We would go to Florida every year and my dad would say, look, it says in this 20 hours. So here we are, kids doing the math. How long is 20 hours? We're gonna get there at this time tomorrow. My dad wants to drive straight through and just change with my mom driving. And he says, guys, it's not going to take 20 hours, it's going to take 22 hours because we got to stop and eat, we've got to get gas there's going to be traffic somewhere along the way. This is a 22 hour trip to drive all the way from Michigan all the way to Florida. And so I put it says 20 hours. Kids didn't get it. But he had the foresight to say, I'm planning for the future, planning for the obstacles, planning for the gas, the traffic, the food. And, and you know, I just now, in a business mindset, kind of like what we're discussing today, hey, your journey is not going to be a pure three year, you know, KPI metric tracking journey. There's going to be speed pumps, traffic, gas and food along the way. And I think, I think you're really telling people that you can build anticipation into that. You can build a product or service that addresses that along the way as well. I think that's, that's a beautiful statement you made, Will. So some more of those challenges. How do we also plan for something's going to slap us in the face. Covid is going to show up. Maybe not that extreme, but some type of guys. At some point we need to be ready to completely pivot. You know, there's people out there that have their preppers and they have go bags and all that kind of stuff. How do we get a business go bag per se when something really bad goes on? We have to rely on, on these other resources or these other avenues. Again, you go through the product, go to market or cyber security side, getting people's minds right. Tell me about that.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's tough because sometimes you can't. And I knew, I knew several people who had really great businesses with a lot of great potential and due to something like Covid or regulation change, it just crushes you.
That's the risk we all take as entrepreneurs anyway. We all kind of know that that's the case. But in the case of where, oh, I do have a business and it is able to move. I've got some left and right lateral movement that I can make and some adjustments I can do. I think you mentioned you kind of hit the nail on the head. It's all about planning for that contingency. And I think most people that I know, like in the startup world who have developed at least applications and technology, what they end up taking to market is rarely what they initially built or even thought that it was going to be. Like, so, so many people are like, I have this idea and here's what it's going to do. And then as soon as you talked about this earlier, like, get it to market. It's not going to be perfect.
And then once you do, your clients will start interacting with it and they're like, well, can you do this? Can it do that? And blah, blah, blah. So I think I'm saying all this to say, I think at the end of the day, it's, listen to your client. That's how you prepare for it. Because I've also seen other companies who are like, well, no, no, that's not how you use it. It does this, it does this. And it's like, well, okay, but I don't need that. And so if you're going to be resistant to change, that's really where it could end up hurting you really bad. So I think you need to take that input into account and then let that drive your roadmap.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: I love that. Listen to your client. That's how you're going to be made aware of the changes and the needs. Now, I also want to caveat that it's your business. You got to run your business. You can't be completely beholden. You dictate your business activities, not your client. But you need to listen to your client as the market as what the demands and the shift needs to go to. So that, that's a pretty, pretty huge statement that I think people probably need to hear a little more often, myself included. And then for us, we, we thought you talk about, especially in the app world of like, the product I released is not what the original vision and plan was in my head, but the needs dictated the outcome. And so for us, we started advisory services several years ago, and the advisory services drifted. But we're like, why? People need this whole other section as business consulting is going to be born out of that, and Shelton Associates is going to stay in its wheelhouse in the tax and financial arena, but these other needs are going to be squeezed out into another venture. And so I think the ability for people to, you know, take that risk, to pivot and to make those changes happen, they have to have that mindset like you were saying, you're going to, you're going to get hit at some point, it's going to change. You need to listen, you need to adapt, and you need to build that in. I think that's, that's really good stuff. So going along those same lines, give us one last token real quick. If you were going to say everybody needs to watch out for these one or two threats potentially coming in the future, whether that's AI, whether that's government regulation, whatever it is, what is will, seeing as here's the areas people are nervous about that could affect your business.
[00:48:55] Speaker C: Oh man, that's a tough one.
I think until we solve the ransomware problem, and I mean that by like being able to actually just almost, you know, a very high amount of time stop it from happening and there, there are some things out there that are doing, making a lot of progress on that until we, until we solve that problem because it's such a low barrier to entry. Like I don't even have to do anything to like I, if I have money and access to the dark web, like I can pay somebody else to do it. And then we split them, you know, we get the, we split the fee or whatever. So. And people are just continually clicking on things they're not supposed to click on too. So I think so I think. And most people who are in my industry will probably agree with me too. I think even my master's thesis was based on this. It's still always about people. It's the human element in security. So you know, don't downplay training, don't downplay, you know, the need to have security. So because again, the people are always going to be your biggest risk. It's example of all of this kind of tying both of these things together. I didn't realize it until I talked to somebody a little while ago, but in Japan ransomware wasn't that much of a. Wasn't really a big deal because their language was very, is very complicated until AI and learning language models came out. And now somebody who's not a native speaker can craft very good phishing emails. And so now that that whole country now is like has to up their training and their efforts there. So it's just still always people.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: That's good. Well, hey, I appreciate that. That's great advice for us. Takeover. The human element is always there. Nothing's going to beat good solid training. And then of course, you know, AI has opened a whole new market for whole new people to be touched with malicious and really good things happening. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Tell us how we can find you and get a hold of you so we can get your services to do all of the stuff we've been talking about tonight.
[00:50:49] Speaker C: Yeah, sure appreciate that. So I'm very active on LinkedIn. It's/will clue w I L K L U. I truncated it so it's nice and short. That's also my website, willclue me. There's an outreach form on there and I do host a podcast called the Keyboard Samurai which is on YouTube, Spotify, Apple and my website. And you'll see it on. On LinkedIn. So pretty easy to find.
[00:51:10] Speaker A: Fantastic. Thank you again, sir, and for everyone in the audience, thank you for tuning in tonight. We'll be back next week with more pivotal change. And in the meantime, we want you to go out there and see the change and be the change. We'll catch you here next time. Have a good night.
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